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HDDRCVR
Joined: 29 Sep 2015
Posts: 462
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Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 19:06 Post subject: multiple ECC combine element
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Sergey, would it be possible to make an element that will use multiple dumps for ECC combine for the final corrections?
For example, if we get a stubborn dump, we could read it into a separate folder and read it x amount of times. Then using the layout, we could ECC correct them individually within the same task. Then the multiple ECC combine an element could take corrected values to produce a final united dump.
Currently, I did it by hand by reading the dump 8 times, correcting them all within same task, then splitting to 2x4 dumps and ECC combine, then rename files into 2x2 and combine again, then finally rename 2x1 and making final ECC combine.
multiple combine elements could be very helpful for something like this.
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Сергей

Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 20282
Flash-Extractor developer
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Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2021 11:52 Post subject:
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//correcting them all within same task
Not need make ECC Fix before ECC Combine, if Fix_Input = ON
//then splitting to 2x4 dumps and ECC combine
// then rename files into 2x2 and combine again
I do not understand this place
Why need split and rename?
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Bolo
Joined: 05 Dec 2017
Posts: 727
Location: 506F6C616E64
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Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:35 Post subject:
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I think OP means to add possibility to add more inputs at once.... as on atatched photos
how it will works ?
Take folder 1 and combine into MAIN
Then take folder 2 and combine into MAIN
Then folder ...... and combine info MAIN
By this computer and FE can work whole night with combine elements using diffrents input without operator
It's good idea
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HDDRCVR
Joined: 29 Sep 2015
Posts: 462
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Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 8:53 Post subject:
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Bolo wrote: | I think OP means to add possibility to add more inputs at once.... as on atatched photos
how it will works ?
Take folder 1 and combine into MAIN
Then take folder 2 and combine into MAIN
Then folder ...... and combine info MAIN
By this computer and FE can work whole night with combine elements using diffrents input without operator
It's good idea  |
thats exactly what I mean. Sorry I lost track of this post thanks Bolo
yes, this feature would be very good for those cases that bring very little improvement to each pass. I am 30 passes deep into one CE on current case, and still have 10000 reds in map. If we could Test retry in differnt spots, save data by reading 20-30 times, then let the process run all night we come back to a much cleaner view.
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Сергей

Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 20282
Flash-Extractor developer
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Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 12:50 Post subject:
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Is is ok if multiple reads will be in same folder? Example:
d:\my case\1
d:\my case\2
d:\my case\3
d:\my case\4
..
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jeremyb

Joined: 09 Dec 2008
Posts: 1950
Location: RecoverMyFlashDrive.com Bridgeport, CT, USA
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Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 13:32 Post subject:
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Why all the hassle with ECC combine? Just re-read straight from the NAND chip.
On a low level there is no reason the NAND Reader can't do page level correction within FE, you have all the functionality in FE except a "for loop" with an "if" statement.
In my NR implementation I do page level addressing all the time, unfortunately my mind isn't smart enough to implement ECC correction so it's a non-starter but functionally all the technology is built into NR and FE.
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Сергей

Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 20282
Flash-Extractor developer
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Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 18:18 Post subject:
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jeremyb wrote: | Why all the hassle with ECC combine? |
Because we can check that memory chip is connected to reader only during "Read ID"
If chip lost connection with reader during reading and start send 00 or ff
All red sectors will be replaced with them
Also if memory give ID, this not mean that it will send normal data
Thats why i always tell:
1. Read new dump
2. Check its ECC map
3. Make Combine
But nobody do )
Okey i will try return ECC Reread
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arvika

Joined: 18 Nov 2009
Posts: 2586
Location: Poland
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Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 18:38 Post subject:
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I agree with Sergey. If something goes wrong you can damage dump (which you for example correct within 2 weeks ).
But current solution is not perfect, because it is time consuming.
I do not know if it is possible, but maybe you can also add function:
reread page/block many times (like 3,5,7,9) and average the result on bit level and save it to dump. Of course reading will be long, but it could give really good result.
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jeremyb

Joined: 09 Dec 2008
Posts: 1950
Location: RecoverMyFlashDrive.com Bridgeport, CT, USA
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Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 21:33 Post subject:
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Сергей wrote: |
Because we can check that memory chip is connected to reader only during "Read ID"
If chip lost connection with reader during reading and start send 00 or ff
All red sectors will be replaced with them
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Why not create an if statement that only modifies on "Green" ECC
eg:
...Grey...
...Red...
...Green...
Don't write on Grey or Red only if the returned page has 100% ECC Green.
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Сергей

Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 20282
Flash-Extractor developer
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Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 22:13 Post subject:
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"Sub folders" option added to ECC Combine in FE_1006
If selected, will take dumps from subfolders of selected folder
if not selected, from selected folder
You can add and delete sub folders while it process other folders
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jimb
Joined: 18 Apr 2012
Posts: 59
Location: Japan
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Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 7:02 Post subject:
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I can agree with Sergey, too. Check ECC Map first then do ECC Combine is the safe process, which we often follow. But, I have rarely seen a 00/FF damaged dump.
However, for some jobs the reread process is very time consuming, and the result is sometimes not repeatable.
Case 1: SanDisk v1 reread: red pair of sectors show green in Test Retry: Tune. Use that retry solution in NANDReader and the sectors are still red. Tune again, Read, still red.
Case 2: Micron v2: Test Retry: lots of red and green dancing on the screen, even in Constant Read. Optimal solution does not necessarily fix the red sectors in the dump. Maybe you can catch a retry solution where the red sectors show green. If you are lucky the sector will be green when read by NANDReader.
[How about putting back the "For Combine" option in Test Retry?]
For these cases ECC WriteBack during Test Retry would be a big help. I agree with jeremyb suggestion, write only green ECC sectors.
If ECC Reread, how would one set the Retry and voltage values?
Thanks,
jimb.
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Bolo
Joined: 05 Dec 2017
Posts: 727
Location: 506F6C616E64
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Posted: Thu May 13, 2021 11:55 Post subject:
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Сергей wrote: | Because we can check that memory chip is connected to reader only during "Read ID"
If chip lost connection with reader during reading and start send 00 or ff
All red sectors will be replaced with them
Also if memory give ID, this not mean that it will send normal data |
So why not use Status Read 0x70 command before/after read data? The Status Read can also be used during a normal read operation (not only Block Erase and Cache Rrogram on Read Cache Read) to find out the Ready/Busy Status. When we get HIGH (1) on the DATA 6 line we are ready to read and and know that chip is connected. so afer 0x70 we get 0x20 (0010 0000) or more likly 0x60 (0110 0000) because Data Cache Ready/Busy is send on DATA 5 line and have HIGH (1) status if read from chip is possible. If we get 0x00 after 0x70 command we know is something wrong with connected memory.
In case you want to explain more reach me by Skype, since returning back ReRead option is good - it's always an option and novadays it's becoming must for bigger capacity flash.
P.S
You implemeneted Map sometime ago... there is only one small step to use it for Reread now as Jerremy writes
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Сергей

Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 20282
Flash-Extractor developer
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Posted: Sun May 16, 2021 2:02 Post subject:
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ECC Reread added to FE_1007
Please, test it, if you have good cases
Need check not that ECC map become green
Need check that files become good
It is very easy to make bug in so complex software
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Сергей

Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 20282
Flash-Extractor developer
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Posted: Sun May 16, 2021 21:45 Post subject:
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In FE_1008 added "Max Diff" parameter
If difference in bits is bigger then Max Diff (by default = 10%) then data from block will not be imported
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Bolo
Joined: 05 Dec 2017
Posts: 727
Location: 506F6C616E64
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Posted: Mon May 17, 2021 11:54 Post subject:
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Works OK as for test now.....
Next upgrade schould be use "Calc stattistic" to reread ONLY sectors marked on Red in map file and combine into main dump
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